What do you do when your professional work is seen as NSFW by some people? You move forward and take it seriously, that’s what. Listen how Fly Media Productions uses the EOS framework to best position themselves for the “pleasure” industry. It’s truly fascinating (and not actually NSFW).
[Music] Welcome to the Solspace podcast. Thanks for listening.
Mitchell: Welcome back everybody to the Solspace Podcast. I'm Mitchell Kimbrough, your humble host, founder of Solspace. We are still on the theme of EOS, the Entrepreneurial Operating System. I've got a couple of podcast episodes coming up right now with today's guests, Reuben and Sherri Johnson. And they are the owners of Fly Media Productions. Why are they on the podcast? The reason they're on the podcast is several.
First of all, like Solspace, they are adopters of the EOS framework. And like Solspace, they use Leslie Camacho as their EOS implementer. And the reason I've asked them to come on and talk with me today is because I want to talk about one of the best things EOS offers, which is a framework to make courageous leaps that you have to make for your business.
Running a business is tough. You have to have some courage and some bravery to do it. And especially it matters that you make courageous choices about your positioning and your marketing and how you serve your clients, who you target, who you don't target.
So without further ado, Reuben and Sherri, can you introduce Fly Media Productions for me? Tell me what you guys do. Tell me who you do it for.
Reuben: Absolutely. Thank you so much for having us, Mitchell, too. We're really excited to be here.
I guess I'll introduce us and then I'll introduce Fly Media if that's okay with you. So I'm Reuben Johnson. I'm the co-founder of Fly Media Productions.
Sherri: And I'm Sherri Johnson, Reuben's wife and partner.
Reuben: So Fly Media Productions is a non-traditional brand agency. We operate in Georgia. We're in the Atlanta metro.
Our focus is helping sex tech and pleasure brands. We harness the power of brand seduction specifically, that's our expertise, and helping them to be able to grow their audience, open up additional opportunity for the brand. And where we really focus like our sweet spot, our digital experiences.
Mitchell: So you just summed it up. You summed up why I thought you had to be on the podcast, especially if we could talk about this overlap with EOS and how it gives you systems to embrace what we have to do as business people, which is be courageous, make courageous choices. So when Leslie told me about you guys, now, by the way, we have a little competition going as far as I'm concerned.
I'm trying to be Leslie's best client. You're trying to be Leslie's best client. We're going to duke it out.
And here's my superpower. I'm going to refer way more business to him than you are. So I don't think you're going to be able to catch up.
Reuben: How about we do this? How about we do this? You'll be his longest running client relationship.
Will can be his best client.
Mitchell: No, no, no, that's not good enough.
Sherri: Longest running means it's not working. Yeah, it's not working, Sherri.
Reuben: I know, but I was talking about going all the way back to P Machine and all of that.
Mitchell: Sherri's like, Leslie's going to say after 10 years, Mitchell, I don't think it's working for you. I think you need to go work at McDonald's. Leslie introduced me to your brand and introduced me to you as clients.
And he said, you know, he made it clear that you were the best, like you were the top client. And why it mattered was, and I think why he meant that was because of the positioning that you've adopted and the choices that you've made. And sort of the special sauce of good marketing is attracting and repelling at the same time.
My kinds of clients are probably never going to be yours because the brand positioning you've taken is going to exclude most of the people who I work with. And that's fine because we do our thing and you do your thing. Like that's how companies ought to run.
You should declare what you want to do and who you can do it best for and then deliver on that and hold fast to that. The reason AOS matters is you can make that strong position, but you can sustain it over time and you can execute and make sure you follow through on that. So when Leslie told me about your brand, I thought, oh, that's kind of scary.
As far as positioning and marketing goes, they're really taking a leap. And then I drove around my town, just a little town in California. Wait a minute.
These guys are right. There's a lot of businesses in this space. I mean, right over there is the shop that sells all different kinds of vibrators and it's a thriving business.
Nothing wrong with that company. And this one over here has one of the mainstays in my town. It's been a business for 30 or 40 years and they sell all kinds of stuff.
Lingerie, sex toys, all sorts of different things that normal self-respecting adults go in and buy. And there's several other businesses like that in my town. And they're all sort of part of the foundation of our economy around here.
So I'm looking around thinking, wait a minute, you guys are right. And this is actually, I mean, it's still brave, but it's actually not that scary. So can we get into this part of the conversation about how did EOS bring you to this as a core focus?
And for those of you who don't know EOS, core focus is the way EOS describes what is your position? What is your primary thing? What's the primary thing you do and who do you do it for?
So could you talk a little bit about how you got to this point?
Reuben: Yeah, that's a good question. I think for us with EOS, I think we should rewind it a little bit. So we were, essentially we're trying to find out some things that weren't working, trying to address and fix them.
And we were working with a coach who was helping give us some direction. But we were still running into some challenges. And then we had some kind of ideological things, big ideological things going on that we wanted to address within the business.
And the way that we work, because our business is so tightly coupled to our personal lives, we really wanted to figure out how do we kind of get these things more in parallel with each other. So EOS, Leslie came in, he suggested EOS to us after having worked with us. And he thought it could be a thing that could help us because it could help us figure out the alignment, like kind of surface the alignment in what we were thinking ideologically and personally, as well as what we were doing with the business.
And then in time, figure out how to get all those things running in tandem. And that's essentially what it did for us. I'm oversimplifying it.
Sherri: Yeah, we knew we were going to be moving into the pleasure space before working in EOS, kind of like right before, because we were working with Leslie on just a coaching basis initially. And we had made that decision. I think it was that decision, like you said, that he kind of was like, you need to try EOS for this new direction that you're going in.
It might help you with all the decisions that you have to make. Yeah.
Reuben: Yeah, because I think a lot of it too, we came to business in general, similar to like you said, a lot of the formalized training we got was more so the old school stuff, going to the small business administration, taking every free course they had on offer, going to the local business college and taking all the free resources they had, the auditing stuff, et cetera. So a lot of that kind of business methodology was tough to kind of get it to apply in 2020s, late 2010s, because it was so different. And I think that EOS, because it's a little, it's a bit abstracted away from what your business is, really worked well for something like this, because it doesn't care what kind of business it is.
So a lot of those fundamental tools really worked with us figuring out a repositioning and diving in and doing something that was not really being done by a lot of other agencies.
Sherri: And because it's so structured, it kind of forces us to stay focused for at least a quarter at a time, because we can be like, oh, we're creative thinkers. So we can be like, well, this isn't working. What else should we do?
We pivot like a lot. So it's been so good in helping us like, well, we have to at least try it for this quarter. We have to at least stay focused.
If we change anything, it can only be like a small change unless it's like absolutely necessary. Yes.
Reuben: Like you were saying in one of your episodes, the visionary thinker. And oh, I am so, I am so much like that. Like before I would be like, kind of like, I'm like that, that movie over the hedge with I don't know what the animal is, but it's like squirrel.
And he just totally attention is constantly bouncing between that is, that is me.
Mitchell: Me too, Reuben. I kept pushing back on the visionary language. Like, yeah, that's just an ego trip.
I don't need to call myself because, you know, I'm over here in Silicon Valley, right? I mean, I'm over just over the hill from San Jose and visionaries are the ones who start the big dot coms and they go public and they go right on a yacht. You know, no, none of that stuff.
The only way that that language worked for me was on the negative side. Like you're saying, Reuben, like I identified with that role in EOS because of the downsides, the downfalls of that person. Easily distracted.
Always thinking about the future. Always looking ahead to something else. Can't follow through.
Lack of discipline. Hey man, that's me. And I need help.
I need somebody to stand next to me and slap me around and say, we're not doing that. That's a great idea. Go have 15 more.
Don't bother me. I'm executing the last one you write. So that, and that's fundamental to business.
I've definitely seen that play out. You guys have been in business a long time too. I adopted EOS because about three pages into the book traction.
I'm like, okay, this matches up with everything I know from 23 years of running a business and not going out of business. This, this is compatible with the facts. I know them as, as I see them.
Did you guys have that experience too? Like, did it resonate with you as compatible with what you experienced running a business?
Reuben: So honest answer, we didn't even read traction before we started EOS.
Sherri: We trusted Leslie.
Reuben: We trusted Leslie's like, he said, you know, knowing y'all and knowing how you do business, I think there's going to be a fit. I would love for y'all to at least give it a shot and like give it an honest investment. Yeah.
Mitchell: I don't trust him that much.
Sherri: I don't trust him that much.
Reuben: Good for you.
Sherri: Very closely coaching basis. So yeah, we trusted him.
Reuben: Yeah. We had, we'd grown to trust, trust his process and working with him.
Sherri: He knew us by that time. He knew us.
Reuben: Yeah.
Sherri: And if he thought it would work for us, we were willing to give it a try.
Reuben: I don't know. It's funny because like, if somebody else had said it, I don't know that I would have invested. And then once we hit the, all the walls that it presents.
Sherri: Yeah. Cause in the beginning, it took a while for me to even grasp it and understand it. I was glad you said that it wasn't the beginning because I was like, oh no, I forgot to write that down.
Leslie's going to be mad. Like, I don't, it's not like the whole process is not something that I'm like, oh, EOS is this, and I can like eloquently explain what it is, but I know it works. And in the beginning it was like, it took a while for my brain to kind of wrap around it.
But once we started getting into it and then doing the weekly L10s, I was like, oh, I like this. Like, I totally get why you do this, that, and the other thing.
Reuben: Yeah. Yeah. It works really good.
IDSing has become like a favorite thing of ours. I love just knocking things out.
Mitchell: Are you guys doing it around the house? Like, like non-business IDS stuff?
Reuben: Not yet. We've thought about it though. We've actually thought about how do we incorporate this into like our like personal relationship, like some of these, these skills and methods of doing things.
They work really well. I love IDSing from like an agency perspective because a lot of times you've got these big tasks that you've got to do, but they're not part of like your regular operations and your regular like schedule. So it's tough to ever get them done and they've got to get out the door.
Sherri: It's the one time of the week where we sit down and work together. So we kind of just blast through stuff.
Reuben: Yeah. I think the hardest thing is our meetings often go over time, but that's really by choice, but they're just so productive. Like we come out of it and we're like, okay, I know every L10 we go into, we're going to come out having accomplished a bunch of stuff during IDS.
It's probably why it's my favorite time.
Mitchell: So we're, you know, we're kind of dancing around the topic of discipline. Yes. And one of the underlying pieces of research and sort of business material, Good to Great by Jim Collins is one of the fundamental parts of EOS.
It's, you know, EOS borrowed some of those ideas. And one of the primary things that Jim Collins is always talking about is successful businesses are disciplined businesses. They're not military.
They're not like a drill sergeant yelling at everybody to do pushups, but they're disciplined. Every week at the same time, they meet and tackle a certain set of things with discipline. Your branding is disciplined branding.
So when I go to your website, I'm like, what's a pleasure brand? Oh, I get what a pleasure brand is. This is tight discipline.
This looks like an agency that's well run. So that part is really successful. EOS kind of brings that out.
But we rewind it a little bit and you were going to tell me how EOS brought you to the place where you could more clearly declare what your positioning was. And I think you were saying that you were headed that way before EOS. But did it help?
Did it clarify? Did it get you where you wanted to be better?
Reuben: Absolutely. Absolutely. The practice of doing the VTO really helped refine because it was a process like that was there's overlap with how EOS does things in the VTO to like brand positioning and strategy, which was that was already familiar with us.
But then I think it's their approach was so different that allowed us kind of come out our own brand more from an outsider's perspective, which is great because we do that with clients all the time. But as you know, when you're doing with your own brand, you're so tightly coupled to it and you're so very familiar with it. Sometimes it's tough to get that objectivity.
And EOS, the whole VTO process helped us be able to come and look at it from a more like 10,000 foot really objective way, which I think was really helpful, especially when we had to prune stuff off. It's helped me become so much more like disciplined with pruning. I was really bad with that.
I was like, I did not want to lop off a single service offering. I was like, no, no, no, wait, wait, wait, wait, business cards. You got to do them.
Like something wild like that. But it helped us tremendously with being able to really prune in line with the positioning.
Mitchell: Well, there's an idea of let go of the vine, right? So you're letting go of the vine, you're letting go to these old things that sort of grew into what your business is. And quite a few of them aren't any good.
They're not helping you. They're not advancing the underlying mission that you're going for. So you got to let go of the vine.
And you don't just let them go and fall. You let them go and you're caught by a system that's going to help you move to the next place and follow through on some good ideas and make sure that quarter to quarter, you're going to execute properly. So this idea of letting go of the vine is really important in it.
In a percentage term, how much have you let go, do you think? And how much have you retained? Like half?
75%? 10%?
Reuben: I would say at least, I want to say half, but I don't know if I'm being extreme with saying we've let go of half of how we were doing things and what we were doing before.
Sherri: Yeah, probably.
Reuben: Probably be about half.
Sherri: I think so. I don't know. I think we've refined a lot of things and we've simplified.
So yeah, I'm not sure of what we've let, like how much.
Reuben: Because it's more like we've like taken like a big bushy hedge and we've really polished it down to like this pristine thing now versus what it was before. I don't know that we like knocked anything completely down and rebuilt it, but we certainly maybe cut a lot off the outsides.
Sherri: Yeah, we kind of restructured it. It makes more sense to us now and even in explaining different things.
Reuben: I think even things like documenting process, whereas some process more was based on intuition and how we actually work through an onboard of a client and then work through presentations and then account management. Instead of it being focused on like experience together, we understand how each other works together. We decided to put together a process to document how all of that should actually go.
It didn't necessarily fully change anything, but it helped make it so that if we need to bring somebody else in or if we're not feeling our optimal best that day or that week, we kind of like stay more like systematized. I think the biggest thing is we're less likely to miss things if we're off our game. I think it's more those kind of things.
Sherri: And then clarifying things so that when we're not sure if a project is a good fit for us or not, it's much easier for us to make that decision without arguing about it.
Reuben: Yeah, that's been huge. That's been huge. The idea of being able to the whole right fit.
I forget what the EOS acronym is, but the whole right fit thinking has been perfect. It has made it a lot easier to choose clients, to choose not to have clients, even to choose is an existing client or a previous client someone or an entity that's a good fit for a long-term client. That has been, we actually used it even helping us figure out contractor resources, helping us figure out fit beyond doing the due diligence of do they actually have the capabilities to do good work?
Do they actually align with the overall vision of the brand and all that kind of stuff? I know a lot of people are more used to hearing culture fit, but I like the way EOS wraps it instead around the idea of the overall vision of the organization versus culture fix. I think for me at least, I don't know, there's something that more connects with my brain with the way that they've organized it in that way.
Sherri: I agree.
Mitchell: What are the core values of Fly Media? EOS has this core values, core focus. What are the core values?
Reuben: Our core values, we had to write them down because I want to make sure we got them right.
Mitchell: I'm glad you did. Pop quiz. Got you on a pop quiz.
Reuben: I don't want to fail. I hate failing anything. Our core values, sociocultural ethics, inclusive representation, unapologetic authenticity, cultural relevance, sex, and body positivity.
I know for most agencies, especially that last one, they're going to be like, okay, that's a very different core value than I don't know if our agency would ever even go that direction. For our agency, it makes absolute sense, especially because we're working in some ways very progressive and very forward thinking innovative market, but at the same time, a heavily stigmatized, heavily sensitive market that people can be very uncomfortable stepping into this area. The market really asks vendors to have a real genuine stake in the future of the market and then those who don't, a lot of times people are going to be very, very cautious because it takes so much to get into this market and then to stay there and be successful.
I think a lot of times folks are much more apprehensive until they understand that yes, you've got a genuine stake in things and you're genuinely invested.
Mitchell: The previous podcast guest was Janina Ramirez from Focus Lab. She and I didn't get into the core values of Focus Lab. They're a deeply EOS company.
They're ahead of us by a few years in adopting it, but their core values are really distinctive and they have absolutely nothing to do with yours. You guys and Janina have nothing to do with Solspace core values. I find that really fascinating.
Wouldn't there be an alignment? No. No, there's not.
That's a really impressive thing about EOS, that it can bring out and give permission to you two to have a set of core values that there is no Venn diagram overlap between our two sets of clients. I'm not ever going to have your clients and you're probably not ever going to have mine. That's good news.
That's a good thing. That means the market is being served. The people who need web development are going to get a web developer who gets them and knows what they need and knows what the pain is and they have the medicine for it.
That's critical. So we're delivering on that. But your core values are really fascinating.
Let's unpack them a little bit. What was the first one?
Reuben: So the first one is sociocultural ethics. It's a combination of what is happening socially in the world around us matters. What happens culturally in the world around us matters.
Being ethical as individuals, as co-founders, and as a brand agency, as a commercial entity, that matters as well. We do a lot of things that intersect where all those things intersect. We're building consumer audiences.
We're bringing brand experiences to consumers. We're bringing consumers together as audience for brands. We want to make sure that we're doing it in a responsible way where we're doing well by our clients but we're never doing a disservice to the consumer audience either and not always looking at them as consumers.
At the end of the day, they're all people. So we're making sure that when we bring in cultural elements, we're not appropriating people's culture. Or if we're bringing cultural elements that maybe we're not as well-versed in, we bring in people representative of that culture who can help educate us so that we're bringing something in that works really well, that's authentic, that's genuine, that's not going to cause any missteps and put the client in a bad situation or offend the audience and the sensibilities of regular people.
So for us, that's all bound up in being ethical, caring about social stuff, caring about cultural stuff. And then the last point is also wanting to have brands that want to be involved, that want to have an impact beyond money. So yes, they want to grow their business.
Yes, they want to open up themselves to additional opportunity through brand experience. But they also, we believe, corporations have an ethical responsibility to the communities that they serve and who buy from them to give back in a positive sense. So that can be different for any kind of business.
I mean, not every business can do it in the same way. But at the end of the day, we believe that corporations have a responsibility. So when we're doing the work that we do, we want to make sure that that's always something that we have in mind.
And we're figuring out how do we potentially integrate that in some of the work we do. And at least broaching that conversation.
Mitchell: Does this core value come up with clients when you're in conversation, whether prospective clients or existing ones? Is it a filtering mechanism? Or are they coming and checking to make sure you get it and that you can deliver on this?
How does this pop up in your conversation?
Sherri: It's more filtering for us, right?
Reuben: Yeah, I would say what you said. It's more filtering. It has come up.
We had one prospect where it came up and they loved that we had done this work because they were very vocal, forward thinking in their industry. And this really mattered to them. But for us, it's mostly filtering.
And I think that it being part of our values, everything that we put out there is in line with this. So I think it's easy for prospects to see the work and then self-select themselves in or out. So some of the filtering is going to happen without even our knowledge, I think.
Mitchell: That's the scary one. I mean, we do that. We do some work to try to repel the wrong type of client.
Our particular problem is that we do really complicated websites and web applications, really complicated B2B e-commerce sorts of applications. And we can't do the work if we can't partner. If we don't have someone we can partner with on the client side, and partner means they care about a lot of the same things we care about, which is healthy communication, good accountabilities, positive confrontation, being effective as people.
These things really matter in your ability to partner with somebody. We can't pull off this complicated work unless we can properly partner. You can't do the kind of branding that you're trying to do if your client doesn't come in with this set of concerns that are paramount.
And if it's a filtering mechanism that just leaves the non-fit clients out, filters them out, it's efficient, first of all. And it keeps you focused on what you want to be focused on and allows you to drill down deeper into a specialization and understand an area better. So this is one of the superpowers of the core values.
Do you use it to select people that you bring in to work with you, contractors and that kind of thing?
Reuben: Absolutely. So that is one of the things where we more formalized it, where we had it in front of us. When we were choosing contractors, we kind of had a check sheet with some of this information on it, in addition to other stuff specific to the roles, where we went through to help guide us in our selection process.
And what we did was we had points we wanted to talk about with them to get a gauge from them. I think that aspect worked really well as well. I think part of it, too, with going back to this first item, the sociocultural ethics, because a lot of the work we do is about connecting with the specific underrepresented demographic groups.
It makes sense as well because that's part of what we're trying to do, help brands to grow or launch or what have you by tapping into those groups more effectively and being able to build brand affinity in those groups. But before you can do that, you've got to actually be able to do it properly versus some of the way, the cringeworthy ways people are... We don't want to put a brand on the front of some website or Twitter because we did something real cringey.
Sherri: We have to actually give a shit to begin with as a company. And because there's a lot of bad actors in this space, too, it helps us to be able to make decisions for our own company and who we want to work with and who we want to amplify and that kind of thing.
Mitchell: Yeah, I agree. This is perfect. This is great because EOS has this superpower.
Your business is so different than my business, but we have the same problem. And the problem is my client comes in and whether they say it out loud or not, they're like, we got this problem. Do you think about this problem a lot, like all the time?
Do you help clients all across your client list with this same problem? Are you an expert with this problem? Are you better with this problem than anybody I will meet?
That's the whole point. That's what you're saying. If a brand comes in and they say, we want to have a better footprint or better outreach to this specific demographic group.
We want to do it with dignity and honor. We don't want to do it cheap. We don't think about it all the time.
We need somebody who thinks about it all the time. And it feels like that's what you're saying.
Reuben: Yes, absolutely. I love the way you put that. That was perfect.
Mitchell: That's my job as visionary.
Reuben: I put stuff the right way. It shows. You do it very well.
Mitchell: What's the next core value?
Sherri: The next one is inclusive representation, which basically, in a nutshell, for us, inclusive representation includes diversity. It is diverse. And that's super, super important to what we do and the work that we do.
And that includes everybody, whether it's, you know, from.
Reuben: Like ethnic diversity.
Sherri: Yeah, ethnic to disability, to body positivity. All of the age is inclusive of everybody. Yes, age.
Reuben: Every my brain just went so many cultural backgrounds. Like, yeah, I'm trying. I don't want to know.
Yeah, because I think a lot of times, like when you've seen it before, where diversity can become a thing where it can be a checkbox versus representation, which can be the people or person you're bringing in are part of the thing. Like they're represented in the thing. They see themselves.
And then we, as the viewer or the person interacting with the experience, we see them as well. So like we want part of our overall goal is like making sure that when we're bringing in people, we're bringing a diverse group of people to represent things much more broadly, I guess is the word, a deeper representation with clients that want to do the same thing and who care about being more inclusive of everybody and in their branding.
Sherri: Because so many things we see, we go to websites, we see the same thing. It's always the same audience everywhere. Not everybody feels welcome or included in all of these spaces.
So that's a huge part of what we want to do. Right? Am I explaining?
Reuben: No, no. Yeah, I think you are. Yeah.
Sherri: You're like nodding at me.
Reuben: I definitely think you are. It's a great opportunity, especially in the pleasure space that you can bring in a lot of visibility to people who aren't. Traditionally, when you think pleasure space, a lot of times a lot of us might think the mainstream view, which is pretty much kind of like one homogenous persona.
What we're trying to do is create many different personas so that when you think of it, you might think of something that more connects with you. The person next to you might think something that more connects with them. But they've got enough.
They've seen enough different things where they feel represented and where the brands also have a lot of options in order to show representation. So we're helping to connect them to a lot of a wealth of influencers who span all these different brackets.
Sherri: And in a way that's authentic to the particular brand.
Reuben: Yes.
Sherri: Everybody's different. Every brand is different. And the way that they show up in that represent in representation is going to look different.
Reuben: Yeah.
Sherri: I love the the banner photo on our website is a curvy black girl, and we feel like that's like a perfect representation of who we are as a company in a way to be inclusive of body positivity and of, you know, black and brown folks in a way that feels very authentic. It doesn't feel like a token photo or a token stock photo. So we we tried to get a curvy girl or a black girl to put on our website.
We did it in a way that is very like blended into the DNA of who we are.
Mitchell: No, it's perfect. It's perfect messaging because she's just exquisitely beautiful, absolutely gorgeous. Right.
And I see what you're saying. Like the image is conveying your brand in a way that you probably couldn't do with words. So it's really powerful.
It's really effective. And she's not being taken advantage of. You know, nobody's making fun of her.
We're saying she's beautiful.
Reuben: Exactly.
Mitchell: She's a beautiful human being. And she's got her thing going on. Right.
Reuben: And we also build relationships with them, too. It's like whether it's the they're a model, an influencer, you know, what have you. We build a direct relationship between our agency brand and then if it's a client, the client brand and the influencer so that they're a participant in it.
So it's more of a collaborative relationship. So with her, like when we purchased, you know, the licensing and did all that. She's a direct collaborator with us in this because we want her to feel just as proud to be representing for Fly Media Productions brand as we are to represent for her brand.
I should say her name, too.
Mitchell: Let's promote.
Reuben: Yeah, she's on Instagram. I was going to say, wait, I don't know what her Instagram handle is, but Chantelle Brown, your founder on Instagram.
Mitchell: Well, this is a perfect cliffhanger. We'll do a cliffhanger episode because this is a good stopping place to stop this episode and pick it up two weeks from now. The cliffhanger is Chantelle Brown's Instagram handle and the next core value that we should talk about.
Tell me what that third core value is. In two weeks, we're going to pick it up.
Reuben: Unapologetic authenticity.
Mitchell: Sherri and Reuben, this was better than I thought it would be, and I thought it was going to be fabulous. So we're already on the right track.
Reuben: Oh, that's so, that is too kind, too kind. We are really enjoying ourselves. We can't wait to hear, to talk with you in two weeks.
[Music] You've been listening to the Solspace Podcast.